I began on this in:
http://www.avraidire.eu/2010/04/is-the-koran-in-favor-of-having-pre-puberty-wives/
SURA 65:4:
“And for those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time will be three months, and of those too who have NOT had their courses; and for the pregnant women, their prescribed time is till they give birth.”
NO WAITING PERIOD IF NO SEXUAL RELATIONS BEFORE A DIVORCE
How do we know 65:4 refers to 3 MONTHS to see if she is PREGNANT?Because in SURA 33:49 it says to divorce a woman you have NOT TOUCHED(no sexual relations) you do NOT have to wait anything.
SURA 33:49:
“Oh you who believe! If you wed believing women and DIVORCE them BEFORE you have TOUCHED THEM, then there is NO waiting period. But content them and release them handsomely.”
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/033.qmt.html
ANALYSIS
Taking “those who have NOT had menstruation” as pre-puberty wives then since they have to wait (divorce not immediate like in 33:49)it means there was a sexual relation.
KRISTINALOVESJESUS AND HER VIDEO ON THE SYNOPTICS WRITTEN BEFORE 70 AD
I had argued in favor of it before.She is a 20 year old girl who has important things to say:
INTERNAL EVIDENCE IN FAVOR:
1.LUKE-ACTS ends in 61 AD with PAUL still alive.In ACTS 21/then 27-28 the author begins saying WE and US:he becomes Paul’s companion.
2.The consensus(at least 95% agreement) of scholars is LUKE-ACTS/ MATT came 10 years AFTER MARK.
3.That puts MARK at 51 AD.
4.The Synoptics(Matt,Luke,Mark) all have a NOT NAMED man cutting an ear the night Jesus was arrested(Matt 26:51/Mark 14:47/Luke 22:50).Later JOHN(90 AD) tells us it was SIMON PETER(John 18:10).Why?To not get PETER,one of the 3 top church leaders(with PAUL and JAMES),into trouble.In 61 AD he was STILL alive(killed by Emperor NERO in 64 AD).
5.The technical reason scholars put MARK at 70 AD at EARLIEST is because prophecies are impossible and they have Jesus prophesizing the destruction of the TEMLE(Mark 13:1-2/Matt 24:1-2/Luke 21:56)and JERUSALEM(Luke 13:33-35/Luke 19:41-44/Matt 23:37-39).
MISSING HISTORY
If ACTS is from 80-85 AD(it’s a history of church AFTER Jesus)then WHY omit:
1.Death of JAMES,head of Jerusalem church)in 62 AD.To show he was sincere.
2.Death of PETER and PAUL in 64 AD.To prove they weren’t charlatans.
3.Mention of fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy(Temple-Jerusalem).To show he was a real prophet.
Why omit 20-25 years?No real answer.
HER VIDEO “All NT Books written Prior to 100 AD”:
She makes a comparison:she gives modern PARALLELS using PEARL HARBOR and the WORLD TRADE CENTER(people writing histories of it and not mentioning them):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR_f_veY11k
Related posts:
ill post some data here i found on answering.muslims concerning this matter, so that we can have a deeper look what muslims tafseers actually say:
Ibn Kathir : “…There is a third type of divorce, which is neither a Sunnah nor an innovation where one divorces a young wife who has not begun to have menses, the wife who is beyond the age of having menses, and divorcing one’s wife before the marriage was consummated Allah said,
other Tafsir.
Al-Wahidi: “…..Ubayy ibn Ka‘b said: ‘O Messenger of Allah, some women of Medina are saying: there are other women who have not been mentioned!’ He asked him: ‘And who are they?’ He said: ‘Those who are too young [such that they have not started menstruating yet], those who are too old [whose menstruation has stopped] and those who are pregnant’. And so this verse (And for such of your women as despair of menstruation…) was revealed”.”
more Tafsir:
Ibn ‘Abbâs: ““O Messenger of Allah! What about the waiting period of those who do not have menstruation because they are too young?” (along with those who have it not) because of young age, their waiting period is three months.”
OK, one more. al-Jalalayn:”….and [also for] those who have not yet menstruated, because of their young age, their period shall [also] be three months — ”
65:4 – Hilali-Khan trans. – “And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses (i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death]. And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens), and whosoever fears Allâh and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him.”
“Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl at this age but it is permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Qur’an has held as permissible.” (Maududi vol.5 p.620)
Tafsir Al-Jalalayn: “And [as for] those of your women who (read allā’ī or allā’i in both instances) no longer expect to menstruate, if you have any doubts, about their waiting period, their prescribed [waiting] period shall be three months, and [also for] those who have not yet menstruated, because of their young age, their period shall [also] be three months — both cases apply to other than those whose spouses have died; for these [latter] their period is prescribed in the verse: they shall wait by themselves for four months and ten [days] [Q. 2:234]. ”
“’And for those who have no courses (i.e. they are still immature). (65.4) And the ‘Iddat for the girl before puberty is three months (in the above Verse).”
http://usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/062.sbt.html
Fatwa on child brides:
“Getting married at an early age is something that is confirmed by the book of Allah, the Sunnah of his Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam), the consensus of the scholars and the actions of the companions, and the Muslims who came after them. Moreover, the interest of Shariah proves it. So the claim that this was abrogated is not correct.”
“The evidence from the Qur’an is:
1. The saying of Allah: “And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death]“. (At-Talaq 65:4). So, Allah set rulings of marriage, divorce and waiting period for the women who have not yet had menses, i.e. the young girls. The Iddah (waiting period) does not take place except after marriage.”
“Al Baghawi said, like in Fath Al-Bari,: “There is a consensus of the scholars that it is permissible for the fathers to marry their young daughters EVEN IF THEY ARE STILL IN THE CRADLE, but it is not permissible for the husbands to consummate the marriage with them, unless they become physically fit for sexual intercourse by mature males.”
“1. Ali Ibn Abi Talib, may Allah be pleased with him, married his daughter, Um Kulthum to Omar Ibn Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, and she mothered a child before the death of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam). Omar got married to her while she was young before reaching the age of puberty.”
“Delaying the marriage of girls in many Muslim countries is something new and contradictory to what Muslims used to do over many centuries. This is because of westernization and the application of man-made laws…..By delaying marriage, there is also a reduction in the number of Muslims in the Ummah, and this is contrary to the order of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam), as he ordered us to have many children so that the Muslim nation will be greater in number than the previous nations. Allah knows best.”
Read full text at http://islamweb.net/ver2/Fatwa/ShowFatwa.php?lang=E&Id=88089&Option=FatwaId
Thanks Debora:
It shows people who spoke Arabic had no trouble understanding the message.If you take into consideration that sura 18:86 says,de facto,the sun sets in a muddy spring,as being true,Islam is false.How can God make such a mistake?I am sure the Muslim apologists like Sami Zatari,Shabir Ally,Paul Williams,Bassam Zawadi,etc know it.
They willfully choose to believe in spite of the evidence of sura 18:86.Very sad itellectually.That doesn’t mean they have to accept Christianity,but Islam is 100% false based on 18:86.Again,their position is intellectualy bankrupt.
They know it and won’t admit i.